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what causes fundamentalism? 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:33 pm
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
I was reading all of your posts, and it occurred to me that most of you use the term "fundamentalism" for things religious.
Rev. Rob did mention politics also.

The issues you all bring up are:

- defense of a particular way of life
- proclaiming that that specific way of life is the only correct one
- proclaiming that a particular point of view is the only truth and providing "evidence"
- insisting on forcing one way of thinking to which everyone should conform

Might it be possible to say that there are also "fundamentalist atheists"?

I have met atheist people who are very adamant about the non-existence of God.
Who say that because God's existence cannot be proven, that it is evidence/prrof of non-existence.
They want to impose their views on others.
It happens a lot here in the US in academia.
I know academics who have said that professors should be required to sign a contract that states that they do not believe in the existence of God.
That seems harsh and extreme to me.

I had never thought of that before, but after reading the posts here, it did make me realize that falling into "fundamentalism" really is an issue with the "human animal".

And it made me think of my experience with atheists.


Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:53 pm
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
I agree Lannah, there are atheist fundamentalists who seem intent to try and pick arguments or ridicule those of us that believe. Some even go to the lengths of twisting ancient scriptures failing to accept others may think differently. I can understand if people who hold such feelings have suffered at the hands of some misguided and perhaps cruel religious representative, but some simply choose to twist scriptures simply to attack believers.

What good do these people do by this? Could such research be targetted elsewhere so it can be a greater benefit to society. Just as religious fundamentalists twist and use ancient scriptures to attack others, the atheist fundamentalist will do so to launch verbal attacks showing no room for respect.

We then have racial fundamentalists seeking racial preservation. Some of these even twist ancient scriptures.

All we can do is try and show another way, a compassionate faith that accepts all, including atheists, and probably not rise to the arguments of religious fundamentalists.


Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:41 am
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
Which leads to a question is the ULC really a faith?

Or is it more a coming together of people of various views and beliefs, accepting of each other. I tend to lead towards the latter I would also argue many Atheists would be unhappy to be considered a faith. They simply put there stock in the facts that they can prove through science and rational thought, those who have a religious belief take a leap of well faith, the spirituality of something is not something that can be from an Atheist point of view proven with cold hard facts.

I myself am Agnostic, having been raised as High CofE attending a Catholic Secondary school, my issues with this branch of christianity is well documented on here in other topics. I cannot prove their is an afterlife or deity, however I cannot prove their isn't as there is only one sure fire way to know, I think there is a spirituality to mankind but that is a personal thing down to the individual not for me or anyone else to dictate what it should be.

For me spirituality is the good man can do through his own actions, and the concept of harmony, unsurprising to those who have seen my profile pic here, and know who it is of.

Now power struggles and dominance do exist in the animal kingdom in many structures there is a dominant one who is stronger and can be a protector, but there is no fighting over a belief or political position, it is simply about survival in the wild, the dominant is the provider and protector it is a primal basic thing and it plays a part in fundamentalism.

However we as humans have invented far more complex things and ideas and beliefs, systems of government of commerce, we have tried to remove ourselves from some of those basic animal instincts, you could say a fundamentalist is a dominant who has learnt to twist these concepts in order to lead, but it isnt as simple as that. Hitler for example was by no means a dominant in the animal kingdom sense considered physically unimposing not much to really look upon, its when the other dimensions of his character come into play. Charismatic a massive sense of self, and someone who could manipulate something else rarely seen with the animal kingdom (deception well nature is full of it) but the manipulation of taking your will and making others follow it willingly under the belief they are still exercising their own will.

Fundamentalist also tend to be gifted in this as well, as I said the cause is us, therefore the answer lies with us.

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Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:14 am
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
I personally look at the following documents when it comes to faith.

United Nations declaration of human rights.

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/

European Human rights act

ARTICLE 9
Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

1 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2 Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1

Now when I often see fundamentalism in action of any type I see the attempt to impose a person's belief on others and an attempt to remove the rights each person has to freedom of religion or belief.
Fundamentalism rarely considers others when it takes over states or communities. It feels it has the only concept on what it is to be right and therefore it seeks to suppress others. It often seeks human right to protect itself whilst trying to remove these rights from others. The attempts are often made by imposing intimidation, fear in others, or preventing others from speaking or having an alternative view so saying that someone disagrees with out being intimidated. I am not against anyone having a fundamental belief but the minute they seek to impose that on others then I see it as a human rights issue. Death threats or threats of hell and the like if people do not agree with them is a total disrespect for the freedom of thought of others and are a means of control rather than faith (imo). In this I believe they have made themselves open to challenge. I also must point out that it not only religions that are persecuted. Atheists and Agnostics also have been persecuted and some have denied their right to exist. In some countries you can be put to death just for being an atheist or an agnostic and well as holding an alternative faith. I therefore call on people to protect human rights. They are very valuable (imo).


Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:02 pm
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
If you attempt to protect human rights, there are some who would suggest you are a terrorist. Maybe we should send flowers. Provided we check for allergies first.

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Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:20 pm
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
Rev Richard wrote:
I agree Lannah, there are atheist fundamentalists who seem intent to try and pick arguments or ridicule those of us that believe. Some even go to the lengths of twisting ancient scriptures failing to accept others may think differently. I can understand if people who hold such feelings have suffered at the hands of some misguided and perhaps cruel religious representative, but some simply choose to twist scriptures simply to attack believers.

What good do these people do by this? Could such research be targetted elsewhere so it can be a greater benefit to society. Just as religious fundamentalists twist and use ancient scriptures to attack others, the atheist fundamentalist will do so to launch verbal attacks showing no room for respect.

We then have racial fundamentalists seeking racial preservation. Some of these even twist ancient scriptures.

All we can do is try and show another way, a compassionate faith that accepts all, including atheists, and probably not rise to the arguments of religious fundamentalists.


Interesting.
This thread has made me think a lot.
And yes, there also are "race fundamentalists" along with the "atheist fundamentalists" that I have encountered.


Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:18 am
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
True,
agnostics and atheists are condemned to death even today (Islam),
and they were in the past (Christianity).
By the Fundamentalists of their society and their historical period.

The definition for Fundamentalism from www.dictionary.com is as follows:

noun
1. a religious movement characterized by a strict belief in the literal interpretation of religious texts, especially within American Protestantism and Islam.
2. the beliefs held by those in this movement.
3. strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles:
the fundamentalism of the extreme conservatives.

#3 applies to the other issues we have spoken of, the ones that go beyond religion, like race or atheism.
So people who are extremely conservative in their view of their own belief system are (non-religious) fundamentalists: racism, atheism, elitism, and maybe many other -isms.

Something that is interesting is the American Protestant Fundamentalism was born in at the turn of the century 1900s, as a reaction to Modernism.

Modernism fractured everything that had been believed before (Essentialism), because it (essentialism) did not allow for differences, nuances, variations, etc.

And in time, people who espouse post-modern thought practice it and wield it from a "fundamentalist" stance.



================================
Pete wrote:
I personally look at the following documents when it comes to faith.

United Nations declaration of human rights.

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/

European Human rights act

ARTICLE 9
Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

1 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2 Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1

Now when I often see fundamentalism in action of any type I see the attempt to impose a person's belief on others and an attempt to remove the rights each person has to freedom of religion or belief.
Fundamentalism rarely considers others when it takes over states or communities. It feels it has the only concept on what it is to be right and therefore it seeks to suppress others. It often seeks human right to protect itself whilst trying to remove these rights from others. The attempts are often made by imposing intimidation, fear in others, or preventing others from speaking or having an alternative view so saying that someone disagrees with out being intimidated. I am not against anyone having a fundamental belief but the minute they seek to impose that on others then I see it as a human rights issue. Death threats or threats of hell and the like if people do not agree with them is a total disrespect for the freedom of thought of others and are a means of control rather than faith (imo). In this I believe they have made themselves open to challenge. I also must point out that it not only religions that are persecuted. Atheists and Agnostics also have been persecuted and some have denied their right to exist. In some countries you can be put to death just for being an atheist or an agnostic and well as holding an alternative faith. I therefore call on people to protect human rights. They are very valuable (imo).


Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:39 am
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
Rev Rob wrote:
However we as humans have invented far more complex things and ideas and beliefs, systems of government of commerce, we have tried to remove ourselves from some of those basic animal instincts, you could say a fundamentalist is a dominant who has learnt to twist these concepts in order to lead, but it isnt as simple as that. Hitler for example was by no means a dominant in the animal kingdom sense considered physically unimposing not much to really look upon, its when the other dimensions of his character come into play. Charismatic a massive sense of self, and someone who could manipulate something else rarely seen with the animal kingdom (deception well nature is full of it) but the manipulation of taking your will and making others follow it willingly under the belief they are still exercising their own will.

Fundamentalist also tend to be gifted in this as well, as I said the cause is us, therefore the answer lies with us.


This is so true, we create (societies, ideas) and then react against what we created --wanting to be original or free ourselves of socio-historical shackles.
But then, those who broke away and created the "new", in time, through time evolve into the new Fundamentalists, only adhering to a topic of their own choosing.
Aaaggghhhh...
We try and try and try, as a species, but we fall short.


Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:45 am
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
Zen Dog wrote:
If you attempt to protect human rights, there are some who would suggest you are a terrorist. Maybe we should send flowers. Provided we check for allergies first.



Here in the US we do not see terrorists as people who protect human rights.
Be these "home-grown" terrorists (born or raised in the US) or foreign born (refugees, immigrants).
We see them as people who either violate the human rights of others (by killing groups of innocent bystanders), or who believe they have the right to violate the human rights of others, because what they have to "offer" is better and it permits them to eliminate the non-believers, the non-followers of what they have to peddle.

Terrorism is an extremely severe form of Fundamentalism.


Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:50 am
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Post Re: what causes fundamentalism?
Yep.

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Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:54 am
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