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Jesus 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:26 pm
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Post Jesus
We read of Jesus as performing various abnormal acts, walking on water etc.
As we know some religions treat Jesus as an important prophet but there does not seem to be a record or mention of him in later years. The only one I know of is that by Tacitus C60AD who only mentions Christians. Interested in any comments.


Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:08 pm
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Post Re: Jesus
johntee wrote:
We read of Jesus as performing various abnormal acts, walking on water etc.
As we know some religions treat Jesus as an important prophet but there does not seem to be a record or mention of him in later years. The only one I know of is that by Tacitus C60AD who only mentions Christians. Interested in any comments.

I think we need to respect other people's faith on this matter but I can say what I personally think. Others are free to disagree and to make up their own mind.
I believe there was two movements. One was a Jewish movement which followed the teachings of Jesus and was headed by his disciples and the second a Christ movement mainly brought in to being by Paul. I find that the teachings of Paul contradict that of Jesus and also contradicts the later document of ACTS. In my understanding the Jesus movement based in Jerusalem was largely destroyed by Rome in 70AD. Paul's movement being highly influenced by helonised viewpoints and more palatable by the Roman empire survived and became adopted and built on. (IMO) it was Paul that created the Christianity we know to day and influenced the gospel writers but I really do not believe that Jesus saw himself as God and I have a suspect that many of the said miracles of Jesus came from other sourses to that of Jerusalem movement. However, beside the bible account I believe you are right in saying that there is little reporting that mentions Jesus by name. The issue now is that I do not trust the bible account and look more towards the themes of Jesus' teachings rather than holding up any book to be perfect, God given or spoken, or inerrant.
I beleive the church built on Paul's message and I cannot see how one could arrive at the so called apostles creed without Paul's viewpoint. Hence, I personally do not agree with the apostle's creed either. Just to highlight the point I like to quote Barrie Wilson's book on, how Jesus became Christian, where he asks why the apostles creed does not include the following :-

"We revere our teacher, Jesus who taught us to make the Kingdom of God our highest priority and to prepare for its manifestation on earth, through deeds of compassion and caring backed by an inner spirit of generosity and forgiveness.
We follow the example of Jesus who taught us to be sensitive to the needs of others and to respond appropriately.

We believe in the teachings of Jesus who challenged us to live the life of the Torah to its fullest, to embrace correct attitudes as well as right behaviour.

We acknowledge with gratitude the Jesus who gave us the hope that God's rule would eventually be sovereign over all the earth and righteous will truly inherit the earth.

We have confidence in God, creator of the universe, who alone can redeem and who, forgiving us our failings, will resurrect us from the dead to life eternal.
Why none of this? There's a lot missing from the Apostles' Creed- all of Jesus' teachings, in fact. This is truly astounding."

Barrie Wilson.
Reference:- Barrie Wilson, "How Jesus became Christian - The Early Christians and the Transformation of a Jewish Teacher into the Son of God", Chapter 8, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, London.


Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Jesus
some beliefs have him as a buddha,a prophet,an incarnation of vishnu,or a learned rabbi.

my beliefs do not include him at all,although according to roman records(as i understand it)there were 3 "jesus of nazrath".

what one chooses to believe or not is up to them.


Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:08 pm
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Post Re: Jesus
rev mark wrote:
some beliefs have him as a buddha,a prophet,an incarnation of vishnu,or a learned rabbi.

my beliefs do not include him at all,although according to roman records(as i understand it)there were 3 "jesus of nazrath".

what one chooses to believe or not is up to them.

I fully agree. It is up to what each person chooses to believe. However, that said I do think the Rome Empire and RC Church was responsible for a lot not allowing freedom of thought over the years. Maybe not so much now but it was a life and death consequence to say you disagreed with them in the past. Like I say you do not see many Gnothics, Cathars, and Ebonites nowadays. Although many are reforming.


Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Jesus
Somebody said Jesus! Are we allowed to swear? :lol:
Apparently, Davy Crocket could grin a bear to death.
I think the problem lies in basic ignorance.
i.e. lack of gnosis or as we say knowledge.
In them old days there was no media,no discovery channel.
Although I think the Currant Bun would have had a field day.
We are Pan Narans.The story telling ape.We love stories.We pass them on and embellish them.But we are incredibly selective.
In JC's day there were about a dozen messiah's romping about that neck of the woods.
We impose our perspective on a culture from long ago and far away.
We can't possibly understand their mindset.
One story becomes dominant for a variety of reasons and before you know it.
You have a global belief system.
Remember,the laws of physics like the law of vested interest always applies.

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Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:23 am
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Post Re: Jesus
I strongly believe that Jesus Christ was an enlgihtened soul. In my opinion he taught the essence of true religion. Because he was a believer in God, He taught the love of God and the love of humanity. But these teachings can also be found in other spiritual sources. I believe that all enlightened souls have tried -- throughout the ages -- to lead human beings to the path of spiritual enlightenment. The problem is that at some time in history these enlightened souls become Gods. Many Buddhist traditions see Lord Buddha as a God, but in many texts we fin Him denying any divine status. Lord Krishna was a prince and an enlightened soul, but in India He is now a God. And of course, we know the story of Jesus Christ.

In my opinion, they were not Gods, they were human being that saw beyond our humanity.

Hermano Luis

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Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:53 pm
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Post Re: Jesus
Roman Emperors were deified.Most of them quite liked this. Vespasian however being a practical and pragmatic administrator and not prone to vanity was opposed.However,he was also a realist and on his deathbed his last words apparently were "Oh no,I think I'm becoming a god".

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Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:37 am
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Post Re: Jesus
johntee wrote:
We read of Jesus as performing various abnormal acts, walking on water etc. OK

As we know some religions treat Jesus as an important prophet. Of course, traditional Christianity sees him as more than that. And Islam sees him both as prophet and Messiah, but not divine. As a Jew, I see him as neither, but I respect the views of others.

but there does not seem to be a record or mention of him in later years. The only one I know of is that by Tacitus C60AD who only mentions Christians. Here you lose me. I am not quite sure what you are trying to say. Are you asking about a paucity of contemporary or near contemporary references to Jesus outside of Christian scripture?

Interested in any comments. I'll wait until I understand exactly what you are asking.


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Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:15 pm
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Post Re: Jesus
Apologies beforehand for not being able to copy references but the paragraph begining "We rever our teacher" etc.Well, Dudeists would just sum that up as "Abide".We're into the whole brevity thing.Mostly.
And if you are capable of understanding Glaswegian,Billy Connollys Crucifixion adds a different perspective.It is on Youtube.And I have partaken of the odd cocktail in the Sarry Heed (Saracens Head).Cocktails in the Sarry Heed are very odd.Oh come on,this is the city that gave us the deep fried Mars bar.And you've not almost lived 'till you've experienced deep fried pizza washed doon with a boatle uv Irn Bru.
An acquaintence of mine back in the early 80's would bring to work each day for his packed lunch a bottle of Irn Bru and a bottle of vodka.I am unsure of the brand.He was a station ticket collector and they had a special room where they would sort the collected tickets for sending back to head office for accounting purposes.This was in the day of the little Edmonson card.He kept an empty Irn Bru bottle in his locker and would decant half and half at the begining of his shift.Every time a train came in he would collect the tickets and retire to his personal bothy and by the time he went home the bottles were empty.I think it was 1985 they found him behind his front door.When they cremated him, the crematorium burnt down.Actually I made that last bit up.

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Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:32 pm
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Post Re: Jesus
For me Jesus was a man, a Jew who followed Judaism, and taught Jewish teachings which upset the Romans who killed him (as they did others who challenged the Roman occupation and their repression of Jewish ideas). Some of the helonised followers then elaborated the story so Jesus then became God, born of a virgin, walking on water, and started a new religion. I now this will upset those who quote the bible as their only source of information but I suggest they look at the history of the bible and the religion and how both have developed over the years.

I personally accept that the Jesus was influenced by God (others are free to disagree) and believe his teachings are mostly worthy of respect. However, I struggle with what conservative Christianity has made of the life of Jesus.


Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:37 pm
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