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Credibility 
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:14 pm
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Post Re: Credibility
I am happy for anyone to use a ULC title on this forum but I otherwise agree with John on his point of not using it in hospital settings. There are many professions that work in the health service who legally carry the title doctor but rarely mention it in health service settings. Many Psychologists, Pharmacists, even some nurses nowadays and others have often done a doctorate but do not mention the fact in health settings because it could cause confusion that could cost people their lives.
Another confusion is with using terms of having an honors degree and that of having an honoury title degree. They are two very different things. One is an advanced academic degree and the other a title given to respect a person's ministry or work or contribution. I therefore still recommend people use the title "honoris causa" after any ULC degree they mention so that one can prove that they have never intended to deceive people. That said, I also recommend people doing degrees at the ulc seminary.


Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:03 pm
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:08 pm
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Location: Middlesbrough, Teesside.
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Post Re: Credibility
Having spoken to a Catholic Father, what the ULC UK needs is a council of ministers (for want if a better title), It would be simply a group responsible fir raising awareness and giving out references for ministers, it would not need to be so much a governing body as a guidance body. Once we had that, we would atomatically be able to give our ULC brethren in the uk more standing.
I have cone up against this while trying to become Chaplain for my local Sea Cadet unit, the SCC needs some to be 'classed' as my superior, just to clarify I have the right to be a minister.
This could be easily attained by people on thus site coming together as a 'ulc UK council of ministers' collecting the contact info of ulc personnel and having a contact for references & enquiry. While I understand the requirements of such an undertaking are huge there would be NO requirement for persons to register but it would be something that would aid us all. It doesn't need to be overtly religious one way or the other hence why it's a council.

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Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Credibility
One of the issue that separate us from other churches is we are multifaith. To set up anything that would present itself as a hierarchy would go against the grain of the universal membership. I have known for sometime that if I personally bowed to the mainstay religious Christian organisations that I personally could get personal recognition. The problem here is I do not want to bow to the mainstay religious acceptance of the churches in the UK because I do not agree with most of them. The ULC in the states would not have problems in some states if they were all of the same faith as some states demand that a church must be of one faith.
There is also the logistics of a multi faith church. Some Christians would not like it if they were governed by Satanist ministers or visa versa. Some atheists would not like it if theists tried to tell them in order to be recognised they had to declare a faith. Most pagans would not like it if asked to sign up to a Christian creed or be governed in a way that went against what they believe and personally I do not blame them. The core of the ULC is each minister is responsible for their own ministry and joins up to the universal fellowship of the ULC. Hence although I am an Admin member on this forum I am not in charge of another member's ministry and nor will I ever agree to be or accept my ministry being governed by another.
If the UK was really a supporter of religious freedom then it would allow ministers of all faiths and non faiths to conduct marriages but that is not the case. The reason the US can have a Universal ministry is because it is the state that carries out the legal formalities and it is the minister or appointed person who confirms it.
The whole idea of a hierarchy is brought home to me when I see organisations like the church of England cracking and breaking up over such issues like Women bishops or gay marriage. The church is split between liberal minded ministers and conservative ministers and is only united because it suppresses its membership and refuses to debate certain issues. I do not want such a organisation.
The other issues is what of those ministers who choose not to join such a fellowship or even this forum. Are they any the less ULC ministers? Of course not because the ULC is a Universal church that recognises all beliefs as long as they do that which is right. Even then there is a lot of leeway as to how that is interpreted by each individual.
In short I am personally against the setting up of any hierarchy. I have seen others who tried to set up a hierarchy both here and in the states and it just ended up with a massive split and from what I have experienced "ill will". The day the ULC in the UK sets up a hierarchy is the day I personally would leave because it goes against the idea of a universal membership. I am sorry but I am not in charge of another's ministry and no one is sure not in charge of my ideas of ministry and I do not seek the power to be in charge of the faith of others as it goes against religious freedom (IMO) and the universal fellowship of the ULC.


Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:04 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:20 pm
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Location: Kent, England
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Post Re: Credibility
I've read the last two posts on this and though I do see where you are both coming from I do agree with Pete. (IMO)This country does seem daft where religion is concerned. EG, if you want to get married you go to either a registry office or church and they do the ceremony yet if you decide you want to divorce you dont go back there to get the nisi or absolute you go to a solicitor and court -it should all be done like the American's that way its the same both ways and as Pete said the minister is just confirming it.
I wouldnt like it if there was a hirachy on here either. I log on to the forum because each of you have such diverse faiths or no faith and that it matters not what my belief system is you all accept and respect me for me just as I accept and respect you all for you.

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Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:00 pm
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:08 pm
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Location: Middlesbrough, Teesside.
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Post Re: Credibility
I think I haven't explained myself correctly as I was not suggesting the setting up of a governing board, far from it, as a ULC minister I fully endorse the ideal that we should be free to practice what we wish as long as it brings no harm, I was suggesting the setting up of a place ulc members in the uk could gain a referance from, just as you would for a job, a referance that state's you are known as a ULC member and have the right to preach in that capacity.
The biggest issue we have in the uk is the dependenc on referances & checks by all rungs, even if the uk adopted a fully opendoor policy to faiths we would still need a place where we could gain a referance, within the uk. It is the UK's way of stopping 'people with questionable histories' getting into places they shouldn't be, such as a CRB check before being allowed to work with children, elderly or vulnerable persons.
I would not endorse a 'ruling council' as that goes against what we, as members of an open multi-faith church, stand for but it would benefit us all if there was a place we could get a referance from that was within the uk. I appologise for any misconception my early post may have caused, I should really be more to the point.

As fir weddings, ulc ministers in the uk CAN perform them, I checked with the registras office, it is the building that is licensed not the person, you need 20 people to sign off as regular attendees & for a year, you work alongside a registra and then you are on your own. I have the paperwork in my files as once I have 20 regular 'parishioners' I will be putting in for it.

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Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:52 am
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Post Re: Credibility
it is no easy thing with a web based forum with no property, but it is positive.


Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:36 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:08 pm
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Location: Middlesbrough, Teesside.
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Post Re: Credibility
So how does this sound, we get a PO BOX any one who needs to give an address give the PO BOX. that way it is a corrispondance address without posting our home addresses on the net.

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Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:12 pm
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:55 pm
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Post Re: Credibility
Interesting concept. A home base as it were in the real world and not just in cyberspace. I tried this years ago after Danny Wallace's daft program of starting your own country. (I was there in Leicester square). His cyberspace realm was the kingdom of Lovely. I suggested that if all the supporters contributed a nominal sum then a farm could be purchased which could support a small population with occaisional visits by citizens from further afield. Free holiday in the country for a nominal amount of work. There are places this actually happens. It would operate as a ghost kingdom until such a time when autonomy could be defended. It was shortly after this that I became familiar with the concept of self delusion. I'll leave it up to you to decide who was doing it. Needless to say, the idea fell on deaf ears. I think the thing about cyberspace is that when you get down to bricks and mortar or mud and grass, voicing your opinion from the safety of a keyboard carries less risk. The likes of Cecil Rhodes may be frowned upon in this day and age but you have to give him credit for having mucho grande cojones. It would be an interesting concept to have a bricks and mortar church. Some churches have chapels within them for private worship or specific saints. I have said from time to time it would be nice to have a periodical gathering. I think though.................well, you know.

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Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:48 am
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Location: Greene, Maine, U.S.A.
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Post Re: Credibility
It might work to see if some variation of what we've done in the State of Maine. We have the Maine Pagan Clergy Association, which only has a Board of Directors (2-year terms -- I even did it once) and a few standing committees. We have as much (or perhaps even more) of the childish Nobody's Gonna Tell Me What To Do phenomena in Pagandom as in the ULC.

One thing about Maine law, though, is that "an association of ministers," etc., can issue "licenses" for ministers. We have a process for this, and I think you can download the forms to look over, since regardless of one's particular Pathway, if one is functioning as clergy there a a great many kinds of things one will be doing. The details of one's Pathway's answers will be particular to itself, but just about everybody will have established (or this process will spur it along) its own details towards each of these ends. Whether you can issue "licenses" or "locally confirm" Modesto's ordinations by some process similar to ours, that might be a good starting place.

Being ULC specific for your case in the UK, some changes would be obvious simply from the standpoint of the different system of laws, and how widely ther're applied to clergy.

I myself am still not satisfied with our constitution and by-laws, but it's a continuing work in progress.

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Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:42 pm
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Post Re: Credibility
Ananta, I thought the nobody's gonna tell me what to do phenomena was what defined you all in the former colonies. I saw a fascinating programme recently about how the states got their shape. It highlighted that principal wonderfully.

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Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:21 pm
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