View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:50 am



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Obama's visit 
Author Message
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:14 pm
Posts: 2573
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Obama's visit
I have been a supporter of Obama although I am non US citizen. However, after his last visit I am not happy with him. He said that if the UK did not join the EU then it would take a long time to draw up a new trade agreement with the US. The UK is the USA's third biggest export market after China, and Germany. The exports market is bigger in Germany and the Uk than all of the other EU countries put together.
Our soldiers have fought and died alongside the US even when no other country would join in and the UK has stood as firm supporter of the US and NATO. We even have US troops based here.
The US would never sign its country over to be ruled by any other group of nations but it insists the UK should do.
Obama insists we should have the EU TTIP agreement even though that would affect our NHS (something successive Democrat Presidents have failed to bring into the US) and it would affect our welfare services, and pharmaceutical and safety checking.
Now I make it no secret that I am against staying in the EU but either way I feel hurt by Obama's comments and his apparent disrespect for the UK. The idea that we should have to wait possibly 10 years for another agreement seems to have no respect for our support and past relationship to the USA. There have been times the UK has supported the US when no other country did including the rest of the EU.
He spoke about how TTIP had improved Vietnam's treatment of its citizens but there is a great difference between Vietnam and the UK and and the EU TTIP agreement would bring our standards down and not up by removing many of our institutions like the NHS by have it forcibly privatised. We could be heavily fined by big US corporations if we disagreed with their take over.
I think he has done a lot of damage over here to his reputation and I hope others who follow him do not have the same attitude and yet I hear Hillary and Bernie also recommending we stay in the EU. Makes me wonder what one gets out of our support for the US when it has threatened to treat us so badly.


Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:25 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:27 am
Posts: 250
Location: indiana,usa
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
to be honest pete,i don't think anyone should be telling another country how to govern it's citizens.in some cases object to the treatment of,but not how they run their country.

and for the record,i never voted for obama either time,and am not sure what i'm going to do next year when it's time to vote.


Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:34 pm
Profile E-mail YIM
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:14 pm
Posts: 2573
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
It is hard Mark as I have always felt close to the USA. A bit like a fellow family member in the world. I think Obama stepp├Ęd over a line . Especially as the Independent newpaper reports there is nothing to the benefit of the UK in the EU TTIP agreement. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 99646.html


Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:24 pm
Profile E-mail
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:14 pm
Posts: 2573
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
I note that Ted Cruz said he backs the UK leaving the EU. He also said the UK should be the first to have an agreement with the USA and not the last.. It makes me think Obama's comments were just his personal opinion about what he personally would do and carries little other weight..


Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:27 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:33 pm
Posts: 899
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
I am so sorry.
I know exactly what you mean.
It's that lingering "manifest destiny" mentality. It has to be their way, and they have to take over.
In the US so many people do not get the services they need, the number one is medical.
Our streets are full of homeless people that simply need proper medications.
If you are employed, you get your health insurance through your employer.
If you are sick, and cannot work, and need to take time off, often times you lose your health insurance!
Rich people do not have any of these problems, but it's us in the middle class, and the poorer working class community.
We have a group of people called "the working poor".

Obama failed in the US to set up a system like the NHS. Republicans would not have it!
The American Medical Association would not have it.
The private health insurance companies would not have it.
It's a billion dollar industry!

He failed here in the US, and I do not want to say this, but it's almost like he wants it to fail for you all now.
Like: well, I couldn't get it, so let's make sure others lose theirs too!

His mother died of cancer, and fought to the last minute to get services from the health insurance company.
When she got very sick towards the end, they would not pay for her medical services.
The insurance company wanted her (and others like her) to simply stay home, as the illness progressed, and wait to die, without medical care.

This is a very sad and complicated country and culture.
It is not like what is portrayed in the movies or TV shows, where everyone is either rich or upper middle class, and live in fancy big houses and everyone has nice cars.

I wish it was!!!! But that is the image the US exports.
And people out there think we all have "mansions"!!
We don't.

I have 2 jobs, (both are 30 hrs per week, so I work 60 hrs a week).
I work 7 days a week, and cannot make enough money to support myself.
I live a very modest life, and have to share a house with 2 roommates, because I cannot afford to pay rent by myself.
Last month I borrowed money from my mother, who is old!!!
And this month I had to borrow money from my boyfriend.
For really basic things like gasoline, and some food.

When I lived in Chicago
I had 2 full time jobs with the same university.
One job payed me a full time salary, the other paid me 32% of a salary for the second job.
I was paid 100% salary for the administrative job.
I taught 4 classes, which is full time professor work, and they paid me 32% of a salary for that.

I lost my health due to the amount of work (I was in that situation for 8 years).
Took medical leave, and the "medical leave insurance" never paid me any medical leave money (was supposed to be 70% of my salary. Mind you, I had paid the "medical leave insurance" company a monthly payment for 7 years, so that if I ever needed medical leave they would supplement my income.
I took medical leave, and my job would not pay me medical leave income; the government did not pay me medical leave income; and the insurance company (I paid monthly payments to for 7 years, so they would help me if I needed it) never paid me.


Like me,
there are many many many Americans.
Thank God that the Fiat dealership I work for does grant it's part time employees health insurance!!!


Pete wrote:
I have been a supporter of Obama although I am non US citizen. However, after his last visit I am not happy with him. He said that if the UK did not join the EU then it would take a long time to draw up a new trade agreement with the US. The UK is the USA's third biggest export market after China, and Germany. The exports market is bigger in Germany and the Uk than all of the other EU countries put together.
Our soldiers have fought and died alongside the US even when no other country would join in and the UK has stood as firm supporter of the US and NATO. We even have US troops based here.
The US would never sign its country over to be ruled by any other group of nations but it insists the UK should do.
Obama insists we should have the EU TTIP agreement even though that would affect our NHS (something successive Democrat Presidents have failed to bring into the US) and it would affect our welfare services, and pharmaceutical and safety checking.
Now I make it no secret that I am against staying in the EU but either way I feel hurt by Obama's comments and his apparent disrespect for the UK. The idea that we should have to wait possibly 10 years for another agreement seems to have no respect for our support and past relationship to the USA. There have been times the UK has supported the US when no other country did including the rest of the EU.
He spoke about how TTIP had improved Vietnam's treatment of its citizens but there is a great difference between Vietnam and the UK and and the EU TTIP agreement would bring our standards down and not up by removing many of our institutions like the NHS by have it forcibly privatised. We could be heavily fined by big US corporations if we disagreed with their take over.
I think he has done a lot of damage over here to his reputation and I hope others who follow him do not have the same attitude and yet I hear Hillary and Bernie also recommending we stay in the EU. Makes me wonder what one gets out of our support for the US when it has threatened to treat us so badly.


Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:33 pm
Profile E-mail
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:15 pm
Posts: 117
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
Simply put it comes down to an American interest, being TTIP which would lead to a huge march towards the privatisation of the NHS and it is why it is being lobbied hard behind closed doors within the EU.

Your correct America would never tolerate an outside organisation who is unaccountable to steal the power of it people no matter the fault of the American Electoral system or ours for that matter. A country which has a democracy should never give up the power of democracy to an unaccountable group no matter he perceived benefits for the wealthy few.

The first duty of any politician should be democracy and the democratic process (yes this is an idealistic view at times but with the EU it is very relevant) I have been a huge supporter of Obama and appreciated how curtailed he has been by Republicans, and other powerful lobbyists. However that is what he wants for the UK because that is the overall goal of the EU however it seems without the democratic accountability.

For a President who has always claimed to stand by what he believes he seems to have abandoned that when it comes to the UK and its relationship with the EU, we have always been apart yet distinct from the rest of Europe. At the end of the day on referendum day Im being asked if I want to remain in the EU as it not a reformed EU as many in the remain group talk about.

The EU doesn't want change the way it is run currently benefits a lot of the very wealthy and yes the EU does do with workers rights and on other issues however I do not feel these out weigh the undemocratic nature of the EU. so when I vote I will vote to leave regardless of what an American president who will be long gone from office if we do come out and who has a vested interest in the UK remaining. I admire Obama for trying to accomplish a goal FDR tried to implement but it seems like many modern Politicians (with perhaps the exception of Bernie Sanders) simply lack the courage that FDR had in bucket loads.

_________________
I think the new spirituality will be a spirituality that's not based on a particular dogma. And that steps away from the old spiritual paradigm that we have created on this planet, which comes from a thought that there is such a thing as being better.


Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:26 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:33 pm
Posts: 899
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
My boyfriend in English, lives in Stowmarket.
He and I talk about this issue all the time.

The EU wants to have it 2 ways.
Like the US (wanting to be a Federation) and like something else that is a horrible horrible mess.

The thing is that here ALL the states have independent rights and the right to decide everything for themselves.
There are SOME Federal laws, and as such these all apply to all the states, but Federal laws are less than State laws.

If the state of Indiana wanted to give free health care to everyone,
it would have the right to.
And NO one would tell it what to do. Not the Federal government, not other states.
This includes the death penalty.
Texas HAS and will keep the death penalty. Other states do not want it and have scratched it off.
Most State laws are created by the state.
The laws that are seen as being good for everyone are Federal, and it takes a long time for these to come into place.

Federal laws are:
--recycling-- all states have to recycle
--abortion-- is legal in all states
--just recently: gay marriage -- states must allow it
--fraud --- not allowed
-- certain types of crimes that are considered Federal (many that have to do with money)

There are others, but these are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

None of the rich important people want health care for everyone.
Rich people say that health care is a "privilege" and not everyone has that right. This is an ouch!
But the issue is that medicine has always been a lucrative business here.



Rev Rob wrote:
Simply put it comes down to an American interest, being TTIP which would lead to a huge march towards the privatisation of the NHS and it is why it is being lobbied hard behind closed doors within the EU.

Your correct America would never tolerate an outside organisation who is unaccountable to steal the power of it people no matter the fault of the American Electoral system or ours for that matter. A country which has a democracy should never give up the power of democracy to an unaccountable group no matter he perceived benefits for the wealthy few.

The first duty of any politician should be democracy and the democratic process (yes this is an idealistic view at times but with the EU it is very relevant) I have been a huge supporter of Obama and appreciated how curtailed he has been by Republicans, and other powerful lobbyists. However that is what he wants for the UK because that is the overall goal of the EU however it seems without the democratic accountability.

For a President who has always claimed to stand by what he believes he seems to have abandoned that when it comes to the UK and its relationship with the EU, we have always been apart yet distinct from the rest of Europe. At the end of the day on referendum day Im being asked if I want to remain in the EU as it not a reformed EU as many in the remain group talk about.

The EU doesn't want change the way it is run currently benefits a lot of the very wealthy and yes the EU does do with workers rights and on other issues however I do not feel these out weigh the undemocratic nature of the EU. so when I vote I will vote to leave regardless of what an American president who will be long gone from office if we do come out and who has a vested interest in the UK remaining. I admire Obama for trying to accomplish a goal FDR tried to implement but it seems like many modern Politicians (with perhaps the exception of Bernie Sanders) simply lack the courage that FDR had in bucket loads.


Mon May 02, 2016 10:46 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:27 am
Posts: 250
Location: indiana,usa
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
if i am reading your response correctly(and please if i am wrong tell me)you are very mistaken about some of the federal and state laws and what they do.
first:federal law in the us supersedes state law,period.state laws can be stricter(unless it is found to be against the constitution)but they cannot be any less than federal.
second:yes,the states have the right to make their own laws,but again,they cannot violate federal laws.and as has been proven in court many times,they are not always right.north carolina is just one recent example.

i need to stop this political lesson about american politics as it has little to do with the thread.the whole system is screwed up,much like what i understand uk and eu to be.


Tue May 03, 2016 12:09 am
Profile E-mail YIM

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:33 pm
Posts: 899
Are you ordained by ULC?: Yes
Post Re: Obama's visit
rev mark wrote:
if i am reading your response correctly(and please if i am wrong tell me)you are very mistaken about some of the federal and state laws and what they do.
first:federal law in the us supersedes state law,period.state laws can be stricter(unless it is found to be against the constitution)but they cannot be any less than federal.
second:yes,the states have the right to make their own laws,but again,they cannot violate federal laws.and as has been proven in court many times,they are not always right.north carolina is just one recent example.

i need to stop this political lesson about american politics as it has little to do with the thread.the whole system is screwed up,much like what i understand uk and eu to be.



Yes. Federal laws apply to all the states.
But the laundry list of Federal laws is shorter than the laundry list that States have for themselves.
And strangely,
there are times that States will not follow Federal laws. In time it catches up with them, and they have to comply.

I just moved out of Illinois to Texas,
and Illinois is still not in compliance with Federal law, regarding identity verification when you go to get your driver's license.
I found that out when I moved over here.
There are several states that are not in compliance with the Federal law right now.
When Federal laws are created, they work their way into the states.
It's not always immediate.
Don't know how or why.

But that's the case with this identity verification and getting a drivers license. Several states won't do it.
And the same sex marriage situation.
But in time, they all have to comply. Even if it is kicking and screaming.


Wed May 04, 2016 12:45 am
Profile E-mail
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Forum theme by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.